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	Comments on: Neil Davidson on rethinking bourgeois revolution	</title>
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	<link>https://johnriddell.com/2013/05/15/neil-davidson-on-rethinking-bourgeois-revolution/</link>
	<description>MARXIST ESSAYS AND COMMENTARY</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:19:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Dimitris Fasfalis		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2013/05/15/neil-davidson-on-rethinking-bourgeois-revolution/#comment-2313</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dimitris Fasfalis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=1609#comment-2313</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interesting article and topic but consequentialism seems in my view problematic to gain a from-below understanding of what is called &quot;bourgeois revolutions&quot;. I must say that I did not read the author&#039;s book and only listened to the first 20 min of his presentation in NY, but John&#039;s article raises many issues. 

First of all, consequentialism reduces these revolutions to the new order established by the new ruling strata afterwards. But in the midst of these events, a wide range of possibilities existed. A perspective that retrospectively emphasizes the outcome of complex, decades-long and country- if not continent-wide processes, thus seems to miss the alternative paths or scenarios that can be seen at each one of these revolutions&#039; turning points. Consequentialism therefore falls in the trap of a teleological view of history. This is why permanent revolution seems to me a more relevant concept to understand all revolutions since their character has always been a matter of struggle and debate even while they were ongoing. 

To the question &quot;how revolutionary were the bourgeois revolutions?&quot; we should unequivocally answer &quot;so revolutionary that we have trouble to imagine it...&quot; Men make their own history but under circumstances that are handed down to them by each generation... therefore the outcome of all revolutions is decided by the ongoing struggles.

Moreover, a flaw in the orthodox view of bourgeois revolutions, such as Kautsky&#039;s or French historian A. Soboul, or in the consequentialist remaking of the concept (N. Davidson), is that it helps entertain a narrative of the modern world whose core is the triumph of the bourgeoisie and its culture. In this long drawn-out process, from the 12th to the 20th century, the &quot;bourgeoisie&quot; or the middle classes have suffered many defeats and even its &quot;victories&quot; - such as in the Italian merchant republics - have often degenerated into something else. Etienne Marcel&#039;s revolt in Paris in 1358 offers another such example.

Such an account of modern revolutions has been initially thought of and written by moderate liberal historians during the Restauration period, such as A. Thiers, F. Guizot, A. Thierry and F. MIgnet, to provide a foundation to their political outlook and programme. Marxists afterwards used the term bourgeois revolution to point out the need to go beyond the bourgeois limits of these attemps to emancipate men, towards socialism. 

Bourgeois revolutions of the past - especially the French revolution - offered a point of comparison as to better understand ongoing debates about revolutionary strategy and class struggle. Trotsky&#039;s insistent references to the French revolution in his History of the Russian Revolution offers such an example of that type of use of the concept.

But, what we need most of all today, coming out of the 20th century and its ruins, is to learn anew what the politics of the oppressed and exploited can be through the study of revolutions in general. The politics from below that one sees in the downfall of the Bastille is much more useful for us today than knowing that this was a bourgeois revolution.

At last, a permanent revolution approach, from below, to these revolutions offers the possibility to explain the contradictory tendencies within these processes. Traditionnaly, we view capitalism and liberal democracy as two aspects of the same transition to some form of bourgeois society. In fact, liberal democracy has in the European continent been in most cases gained through mass class struggles by the popular layers, against the aristocracy and the upper middle classes whose political influence stopped conveying any pressure when property and the rule of law had been obtained. Thinking of 1789/1830/1848 as a cycle of bourgeois revolutions thus hinders one&#039;s understanding more than it helps it develop.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article and topic but consequentialism seems in my view problematic to gain a from-below understanding of what is called &#8220;bourgeois revolutions&#8221;. I must say that I did not read the author&#8217;s book and only listened to the first 20 min of his presentation in NY, but John&#8217;s article raises many issues. </p>
<p>First of all, consequentialism reduces these revolutions to the new order established by the new ruling strata afterwards. But in the midst of these events, a wide range of possibilities existed. A perspective that retrospectively emphasizes the outcome of complex, decades-long and country- if not continent-wide processes, thus seems to miss the alternative paths or scenarios that can be seen at each one of these revolutions&#8217; turning points. Consequentialism therefore falls in the trap of a teleological view of history. This is why permanent revolution seems to me a more relevant concept to understand all revolutions since their character has always been a matter of struggle and debate even while they were ongoing. </p>
<p>To the question &#8220;how revolutionary were the bourgeois revolutions?&#8221; we should unequivocally answer &#8220;so revolutionary that we have trouble to imagine it&#8230;&#8221; Men make their own history but under circumstances that are handed down to them by each generation&#8230; therefore the outcome of all revolutions is decided by the ongoing struggles.</p>
<p>Moreover, a flaw in the orthodox view of bourgeois revolutions, such as Kautsky&#8217;s or French historian A. Soboul, or in the consequentialist remaking of the concept (N. Davidson), is that it helps entertain a narrative of the modern world whose core is the triumph of the bourgeoisie and its culture. In this long drawn-out process, from the 12th to the 20th century, the &#8220;bourgeoisie&#8221; or the middle classes have suffered many defeats and even its &#8220;victories&#8221; &#8211; such as in the Italian merchant republics &#8211; have often degenerated into something else. Etienne Marcel&#8217;s revolt in Paris in 1358 offers another such example.</p>
<p>Such an account of modern revolutions has been initially thought of and written by moderate liberal historians during the Restauration period, such as A. Thiers, F. Guizot, A. Thierry and F. MIgnet, to provide a foundation to their political outlook and programme. Marxists afterwards used the term bourgeois revolution to point out the need to go beyond the bourgeois limits of these attemps to emancipate men, towards socialism. </p>
<p>Bourgeois revolutions of the past &#8211; especially the French revolution &#8211; offered a point of comparison as to better understand ongoing debates about revolutionary strategy and class struggle. Trotsky&#8217;s insistent references to the French revolution in his History of the Russian Revolution offers such an example of that type of use of the concept.</p>
<p>But, what we need most of all today, coming out of the 20th century and its ruins, is to learn anew what the politics of the oppressed and exploited can be through the study of revolutions in general. The politics from below that one sees in the downfall of the Bastille is much more useful for us today than knowing that this was a bourgeois revolution.</p>
<p>At last, a permanent revolution approach, from below, to these revolutions offers the possibility to explain the contradictory tendencies within these processes. Traditionnaly, we view capitalism and liberal democracy as two aspects of the same transition to some form of bourgeois society. In fact, liberal democracy has in the European continent been in most cases gained through mass class struggles by the popular layers, against the aristocracy and the upper middle classes whose political influence stopped conveying any pressure when property and the rule of law had been obtained. Thinking of 1789/1830/1848 as a cycle of bourgeois revolutions thus hinders one&#8217;s understanding more than it helps it develop.</p>
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		<title>
		By: keith sellick (@littlekeithy)		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2013/05/15/neil-davidson-on-rethinking-bourgeois-revolution/#comment-2245</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[keith sellick (@littlekeithy)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jun 2013 23:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=1609#comment-2245</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I wasn&#039;t there but…

In England there certainly was a bourgeois revolution, but it took the form of a process over 200 years punctuated with revolutionary moments. The Wars of the Roses in the latter 15th century were the death knell of feudalism. Bourgeois historians are reduced to saying the wars were merely a dynastic fight, but it was one that physically weakened the old aristocracy and led to a struggle between absolutism (which triumphed for a while in France) encapsulated in the Tudors and Stuarts and the bourgeoisie, underpinned by important shifts in economics . Then there was the civil war in the 1640s and the final culmination in the invasion and victory of King William and the bourgeoisie in the 1690s. This final phase introduced a stock exchange, the Bank of England, a constitutional monarchy and the supremacy of the City of London, institutions that still dominate today.   

Along the way the final outcome was challenged by populist, mass politics, infused with religion, but nonetheless contention of the final goals all the same. 

The ideology of how revolutions are expressed changes over the years but it seems that popular rebellions against the status quo today have a mass character and within them contending ideologies about modernity and the political and economic order of society, except with the existence of globalisation and a world capitalist order they are crammed within a few years – which should be no surprise.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t there but…</p>
<p>In England there certainly was a bourgeois revolution, but it took the form of a process over 200 years punctuated with revolutionary moments. The Wars of the Roses in the latter 15th century were the death knell of feudalism. Bourgeois historians are reduced to saying the wars were merely a dynastic fight, but it was one that physically weakened the old aristocracy and led to a struggle between absolutism (which triumphed for a while in France) encapsulated in the Tudors and Stuarts and the bourgeoisie, underpinned by important shifts in economics . Then there was the civil war in the 1640s and the final culmination in the invasion and victory of King William and the bourgeoisie in the 1690s. This final phase introduced a stock exchange, the Bank of England, a constitutional monarchy and the supremacy of the City of London, institutions that still dominate today.   </p>
<p>Along the way the final outcome was challenged by populist, mass politics, infused with religion, but nonetheless contention of the final goals all the same. </p>
<p>The ideology of how revolutions are expressed changes over the years but it seems that popular rebellions against the status quo today have a mass character and within them contending ideologies about modernity and the political and economic order of society, except with the existence of globalisation and a world capitalist order they are crammed within a few years – which should be no surprise.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pham Binh		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2013/05/15/neil-davidson-on-rethinking-bourgeois-revolution/#comment-2189</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pham Binh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 22:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=1609#comment-2189</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://johnriddell.com/2013/05/15/neil-davidson-on-rethinking-bourgeois-revolution/#comment-2179&quot;&gt;Henry Lowi&lt;/a&gt;.

Two Tactics is neglected. One sign of this neglect is the entirely false notion that it applied only until April 1917. Lenin argued correctly that his views throughout 1917 were guided by the basic precepts of Two Tactics. And the Comintern never adopted permanent revolution but a version of Two Tactics applied to colonial and semi-colonial countries.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://johnriddell.com/2013/05/15/neil-davidson-on-rethinking-bourgeois-revolution/#comment-2179">Henry Lowi</a>.</p>
<p>Two Tactics is neglected. One sign of this neglect is the entirely false notion that it applied only until April 1917. Lenin argued correctly that his views throughout 1917 were guided by the basic precepts of Two Tactics. And the Comintern never adopted permanent revolution but a version of Two Tactics applied to colonial and semi-colonial countries.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Critical Reading		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2013/05/15/neil-davidson-on-rethinking-bourgeois-revolution/#comment-2188</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Critical Reading]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 20:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=1609#comment-2188</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;The most contentious debate at the Historical Materialism New York 1913 conference...&quot; I knew you were old, John, but not that old.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The most contentious debate at the Historical Materialism New York 1913 conference&#8230;&#8221; I knew you were old, John, but not that old.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pham Binh		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2013/05/15/neil-davidson-on-rethinking-bourgeois-revolution/#comment-2187</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pham Binh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 18:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=1609#comment-2187</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Consequentialism is very a poor way of understanding bourgeois-democratic revolutoons because it skips or &quot;forgets&quot; the struggle that takes place to get to the capitalist consequence, which is really the entire essence of what revolution is! Moving the goalposts in this way makes a proper Marxist understanding of democratic revolutions impossible and makes Marxism look less credible as a rigorous theory that can plausibly explain them because instead of addressing questions and difficult issues it simply evades them.

Even worse, Davidson&#039;s 5-point list excludes the &lt;a href=&quot;http://
www.thenorthstar.info/?p=5759&quot;&gt;living bourgeois-democratic revolutions&lt;/a&gt; known as the Arab Spring!

You&#039;re right to point to the outcome/agency dilemma created by Davidson&#039;s consequential approach. However, I think the root of the dilemma is not in the (anti-Marxist) theory of &quot;state capitalism&quot; of Cliff/Dunayevskaya but in the Cliff tradition&#039;s attempt to cram the Chinese revolution of 1949 and Cuban revolution of 1959 into some variant of Trotsky&#039;s &quot;permanent revolution&quot; known as &quot;deflected permanent revolution.&quot; And that problem comes from Trotskyism&#039;s general ignorance of the Bolshevik, Leninist (no quotation marks) strategy for Russia, something you are absolutely right to bring up.

There are a lot more issues to be untangled in this messy discussion but this is a solid start.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Consequentialism is very a poor way of understanding bourgeois-democratic revolutoons because it skips or &#8220;forgets&#8221; the struggle that takes place to get to the capitalist consequence, which is really the entire essence of what revolution is! Moving the goalposts in this way makes a proper Marxist understanding of democratic revolutions impossible and makes Marxism look less credible as a rigorous theory that can plausibly explain them because instead of addressing questions and difficult issues it simply evades them.</p>
<p>Even worse, Davidson&#8217;s 5-point list excludes the <a href="http://
www.thenorthstar.info/?p=5759">living bourgeois-democratic revolutions</a> known as the Arab Spring!</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right to point to the outcome/agency dilemma created by Davidson&#8217;s consequential approach. However, I think the root of the dilemma is not in the (anti-Marxist) theory of &#8220;state capitalism&#8221; of Cliff/Dunayevskaya but in the Cliff tradition&#8217;s attempt to cram the Chinese revolution of 1949 and Cuban revolution of 1959 into some variant of Trotsky&#8217;s &#8220;permanent revolution&#8221; known as &#8220;deflected permanent revolution.&#8221; And that problem comes from Trotskyism&#8217;s general ignorance of the Bolshevik, Leninist (no quotation marks) strategy for Russia, something you are absolutely right to bring up.</p>
<p>There are a lot more issues to be untangled in this messy discussion but this is a solid start.</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Sharkey		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2013/05/15/neil-davidson-on-rethinking-bourgeois-revolution/#comment-2180</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Sharkey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 09:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=1609#comment-2180</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Do you mean the HM NY 2013 conference ;) J 

Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 03:10:42 +0000 To: jsharkey@sympatico.ca]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you mean the HM NY 2013 conference ;) J </p>
<p>Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 03:10:42 +0000 To: <a href="mailto:jsharkey@sympatico.ca">jsharkey@sympatico.ca</a></p>
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		By: Henry Lowi		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2013/05/15/neil-davidson-on-rethinking-bourgeois-revolution/#comment-2179</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henry Lowi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 04:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=1609#comment-2179</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The &quot;agency / outcome&quot; analysis is helpful. I believe it was anticipated by Lenin in a work that is widely under-used and often distorted.  Lenin did not &quot;concede&quot; the future democratic revolution to bourgeois &quot;agency&quot;.  Rather, the governmental slogan was &quot;revolutionary-democratic dictatorship of the proletariat and the peasantry&quot;.
Lenin&#039;s 1905 book &quot;Two Tactics of Social Democracy in the Democratic Revolution&quot; was the guide to Bolshevik policy through April 1917.  It is still valuable today.
Thus, it is not quite accurate when you write, above:  &quot;The Bolshevik strategy projected that the bourgeois revolution would be carried through to victory under workers’ leadership, as an initial stage leading toward a transition to socialism. After the Russian revolution of 1917, this concept was adopted by the Communist International.&quot;  That was the April Theses, a Bolshevik strategic development that fine-tuned the previous &quot;algebraic&quot; formula, and that was quickly recognized as the &quot;permanent revolution&quot; associated with Trotsky. .   
&quot;Two Tactics&quot; is wrongly neglected in countries that still have largely incomplete democratic tasks:  political liberty, national unification, democratic government.  In Syria, today, as in other Arab countries, Marxists are popularizing the following strategic approach quoted from &quot;Two Tactics&quot;:
&quot;At the head of the whole of the people, and particularly of the peasantry—for complete freedom, for a consistent democratic revolution, for a republic! At the head of all the toilers and the exploited—for Socialism! Such must in practice be the policy of the revolutionary proletariat, such is the class slogan which must permeate and determine the solution of every tactical problem, every practical step of the workers’ party during the revolution.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;agency / outcome&#8221; analysis is helpful. I believe it was anticipated by Lenin in a work that is widely under-used and often distorted.  Lenin did not &#8220;concede&#8221; the future democratic revolution to bourgeois &#8220;agency&#8221;.  Rather, the governmental slogan was &#8220;revolutionary-democratic dictatorship of the proletariat and the peasantry&#8221;.<br />
Lenin&#8217;s 1905 book &#8220;Two Tactics of Social Democracy in the Democratic Revolution&#8221; was the guide to Bolshevik policy through April 1917.  It is still valuable today.<br />
Thus, it is not quite accurate when you write, above:  &#8220;The Bolshevik strategy projected that the bourgeois revolution would be carried through to victory under workers’ leadership, as an initial stage leading toward a transition to socialism. After the Russian revolution of 1917, this concept was adopted by the Communist International.&#8221;  That was the April Theses, a Bolshevik strategic development that fine-tuned the previous &#8220;algebraic&#8221; formula, and that was quickly recognized as the &#8220;permanent revolution&#8221; associated with Trotsky. .<br />
&#8220;Two Tactics&#8221; is wrongly neglected in countries that still have largely incomplete democratic tasks:  political liberty, national unification, democratic government.  In Syria, today, as in other Arab countries, Marxists are popularizing the following strategic approach quoted from &#8220;Two Tactics&#8221;:<br />
&#8220;At the head of the whole of the people, and particularly of the peasantry—for complete freedom, for a consistent democratic revolution, for a republic! At the head of all the toilers and the exploited—for Socialism! Such must in practice be the policy of the revolutionary proletariat, such is the class slogan which must permeate and determine the solution of every tactical problem, every practical step of the workers’ party during the revolution.&#8221;</p>
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