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	Comments on: The Comintern in 1922: The periphery pushes back	</title>
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	<link>https://johnriddell.com/2011/12/04/the-comintern-in-1922-the-periphery-pushes-back/</link>
	<description>MARXIST ESSAYS AND COMMENTARY</description>
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		<title>
		By: robertmcmaster0955		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2011/12/04/the-comintern-in-1922-the-periphery-pushes-back/#comment-11889</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[robertmcmaster0955]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Mar 2019 22:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=780#comment-11889</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Resisting fascism. Everywhere except where it existed. Where is there that the International will forward tens of thousands of armed militant workers. Into Italy. To infect, lead, inspire local militants. Revolutionary workers with a soviet model of governance. Rise up. Fight. You have the numbers, You need the confidence. That there is a way forward. There is light at the end of the tunnel. A red light.

If you don&#039;t know what you&#039;re fighting for you unity is no deeper than what you&#039;re against. That ain&#039;t much. Left to themselves the Italian working class and left dissipated themselves fighting over theory. When the test of experience played out before them. And the Comintern blew its chance to cut the revolutionary forces loose. They got timid. Lost their nerve. Had insufficient confidence in the power of the uprising workers. Whom they could have supported and inspired. But we have to control the! Which they did not. Feeble shit. If it had been Grant leading then forces would have been organized, focused and drilled forward. No stopping until final victory. But the International ever hesitated, failed to commit, show force of leadership. They ever crapped out, lost their mojo, balls, backbone, honour. Thunderous declarations with nothing to back it up. Yet there could have been ample physical intervention. How about China? Or India?. Ripe for armed infiltration.  


Didn&#039;t happen.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Resisting fascism. Everywhere except where it existed. Where is there that the International will forward tens of thousands of armed militant workers. Into Italy. To infect, lead, inspire local militants. Revolutionary workers with a soviet model of governance. Rise up. Fight. You have the numbers, You need the confidence. That there is a way forward. There is light at the end of the tunnel. A red light.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re fighting for you unity is no deeper than what you&#8217;re against. That ain&#8217;t much. Left to themselves the Italian working class and left dissipated themselves fighting over theory. When the test of experience played out before them. And the Comintern blew its chance to cut the revolutionary forces loose. They got timid. Lost their nerve. Had insufficient confidence in the power of the uprising workers. Whom they could have supported and inspired. But we have to control the! Which they did not. Feeble shit. If it had been Grant leading then forces would have been organized, focused and drilled forward. No stopping until final victory. But the International ever hesitated, failed to commit, show force of leadership. They ever crapped out, lost their mojo, balls, backbone, honour. Thunderous declarations with nothing to back it up. Yet there could have been ample physical intervention. How about China? Or India?. Ripe for armed infiltration.  </p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t happen.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Angel Formoso		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2011/12/04/the-comintern-in-1922-the-periphery-pushes-back/#comment-289</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Angel Formoso]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jan 2012 21:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=780#comment-289</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks John!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks John!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: John Riddell		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2011/12/04/the-comintern-in-1922-the-periphery-pushes-back/#comment-288</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Riddell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jan 2012 17:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=780#comment-288</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks to Angel Formosa for his comment on the authority of the Russian Communist Party in Lenin&#039;s time. Yes, they were &quot;looked upon as intellectual authorities.&quot; But did &quot;nobody dare challenge their wisdom&quot; until Gorbachev? Really? What of the record of resistance to advancing bureaucratism and Stalinism in the 1920s and 1930s? It embraced not only the majority of Bolshevik cadres but significant forces outside Russia. Of course, it was not a matter of challenging the Russian/Soviet party as such but of disputes among Communist currents. There was plenty of this in Lenin&#039;s time as well. For example, at the 1922 world congress discussed in this article, Nikolai Bukharin and August Thalheimer, presenting counterposed reports on program, both went out of their way to criticize Lenin&#039;s approach to Kautsky prior to 1914.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to Angel Formosa for his comment on the authority of the Russian Communist Party in Lenin&#8217;s time. Yes, they were &#8220;looked upon as intellectual authorities.&#8221; But did &#8220;nobody dare challenge their wisdom&#8221; until Gorbachev? Really? What of the record of resistance to advancing bureaucratism and Stalinism in the 1920s and 1930s? It embraced not only the majority of Bolshevik cadres but significant forces outside Russia. Of course, it was not a matter of challenging the Russian/Soviet party as such but of disputes among Communist currents. There was plenty of this in Lenin&#8217;s time as well. For example, at the 1922 world congress discussed in this article, Nikolai Bukharin and August Thalheimer, presenting counterposed reports on program, both went out of their way to criticize Lenin&#8217;s approach to Kautsky prior to 1914.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Angel Formoso		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2011/12/04/the-comintern-in-1922-the-periphery-pushes-back/#comment-284</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Angel Formoso]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jan 2012 00:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=780#comment-284</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Soviet Communist Party might not had been the omnnipotent, omniscient one but they are looked upon as intellectual authorities on Marxism-Leninism. Nobody dared challenge their wisdom until a scapegoat and traitor appeared in Soviet history in the person of Mikhail Gorbachev whose ambiguous definition of socialism as &#039;socialist market&#039; provoked great stalwarts like Comrade Kruchykov who refuse to be taken as a fool. Mikhail Gorbachev was won over by accolades coming from the United States Congress, President Ronald Reagan and the CIA. For these, they tickled him. He was driven by a stately car into the suburbs of New York which were window dressed evading Harlem which was riddled with dilapidated shops and homes. How can we win over Russia now that a strongman authoritarian figure is in place, who can control the votes and the media.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Soviet Communist Party might not had been the omnnipotent, omniscient one but they are looked upon as intellectual authorities on Marxism-Leninism. Nobody dared challenge their wisdom until a scapegoat and traitor appeared in Soviet history in the person of Mikhail Gorbachev whose ambiguous definition of socialism as &#8216;socialist market&#8217; provoked great stalwarts like Comrade Kruchykov who refuse to be taken as a fool. Mikhail Gorbachev was won over by accolades coming from the United States Congress, President Ronald Reagan and the CIA. For these, they tickled him. He was driven by a stately car into the suburbs of New York which were window dressed evading Harlem which was riddled with dilapidated shops and homes. How can we win over Russia now that a strongman authoritarian figure is in place, who can control the votes and the media.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Todd Chretien		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2011/12/04/the-comintern-in-1922-the-periphery-pushes-back/#comment-267</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Todd Chretien]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 17:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=780#comment-267</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[John,
   Fascinating as always!  One small example from a U.S. perspective to back up your insights, although perhaps a negative example of just how much independence the parties maintained in the early years.  By 1920, the CI Executive had ordered the CLP and the CPA to merge, yet the CPA openly resisted this position for more than a year and then a substantial portion of the CPA retained an openly critical view of the CI&#039;s policies, which they essentially never agreed were correct and said so forcefully re: legality, united front, bourgeois elections, etc. 
Best,
Todd]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,<br />
   Fascinating as always!  One small example from a U.S. perspective to back up your insights, although perhaps a negative example of just how much independence the parties maintained in the early years.  By 1920, the CI Executive had ordered the CLP and the CPA to merge, yet the CPA openly resisted this position for more than a year and then a substantial portion of the CPA retained an openly critical view of the CI&#8217;s policies, which they essentially never agreed were correct and said so forcefully re: legality, united front, bourgeois elections, etc.<br />
Best,<br />
Todd</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Riddell		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2011/12/04/the-comintern-in-1922-the-periphery-pushes-back/#comment-244</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Riddell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2011 03:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=780#comment-244</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://johnriddell.com/2011/12/04/the-comintern-in-1922-the-periphery-pushes-back/#comment-242&quot;&gt;Geoff Brown&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks, Geoff, for your interesting comment. To my mind, the Bolsheviks were always the strongest and most authoritative party in the International. If they had been &#039;totally dominant&#039;, that would have been a sign of trouble -- that the International had not taken on real life. The real lesson in this was that you could not think up policy for Italian or French workers from Moscow -- nor does that kind of &#039;centralism&#039; work even today, when our &#039;download speeds&#039; are faster than in Lenin&#039;s time. When Moscow did start setting tactical policy, it was a sign that the International was degenerating.

But Bolshevik leaders attending Comintern congresses were sufficiently familiar with the workers&#039; movement in Western and Central Europe so that they almost always delivered their speeches in French or German, rather than Russian. Trotsky, on one occasion, spoke in French, German, and Russian, one after another, while giving a report that sprawls across dozens of printed pages. Lenin, even when gravely ill in November 1922, spoke in German.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://johnriddell.com/2011/12/04/the-comintern-in-1922-the-periphery-pushes-back/#comment-242">Geoff Brown</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks, Geoff, for your interesting comment. To my mind, the Bolsheviks were always the strongest and most authoritative party in the International. If they had been &#8216;totally dominant&#8217;, that would have been a sign of trouble &#8212; that the International had not taken on real life. The real lesson in this was that you could not think up policy for Italian or French workers from Moscow &#8212; nor does that kind of &#8216;centralism&#8217; work even today, when our &#8216;download speeds&#8217; are faster than in Lenin&#8217;s time. When Moscow did start setting tactical policy, it was a sign that the International was degenerating.</p>
<p>But Bolshevik leaders attending Comintern congresses were sufficiently familiar with the workers&#8217; movement in Western and Central Europe so that they almost always delivered their speeches in French or German, rather than Russian. Trotsky, on one occasion, spoke in French, German, and Russian, one after another, while giving a report that sprawls across dozens of printed pages. Lenin, even when gravely ill in November 1922, spoke in German.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Geoff Brown		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2011/12/04/the-comintern-in-1922-the-periphery-pushes-back/#comment-242</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff Brown]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 18:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=780#comment-242</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Indeed, most interesting and a valuable challenge to existing orthodoxy. 

Surely, one reason for the less than totally dominant position of the Russian comrades in the 1922 congress was the demands on the cadre to tackle the crises facing the new Soviet republic.  Thus Comintern work could never be the priority. Another reason must be the the complete lack of experience of international work by the great majority of the cadre.

Nevertheless, despite the weaknesses of the Russian input, the dominance of the Russian party is soon demonstrated with &#039;Bolshevisation&#039; from the 5th congress onwards and the complete failure of parties like the CPGB in Britain to show any capacity for independent thought during the campaign against Trotsky and the efforts of Zinoviev to find &#039;short cuts&#039; such as the disastrous Anglo Russian Trade Union Committee.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, most interesting and a valuable challenge to existing orthodoxy. </p>
<p>Surely, one reason for the less than totally dominant position of the Russian comrades in the 1922 congress was the demands on the cadre to tackle the crises facing the new Soviet republic.  Thus Comintern work could never be the priority. Another reason must be the the complete lack of experience of international work by the great majority of the cadre.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, despite the weaknesses of the Russian input, the dominance of the Russian party is soon demonstrated with &#8216;Bolshevisation&#8217; from the 5th congress onwards and the complete failure of parties like the CPGB in Britain to show any capacity for independent thought during the campaign against Trotsky and the efforts of Zinoviev to find &#8216;short cuts&#8217; such as the disastrous Anglo Russian Trade Union Committee.</p>
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		<title>
		By: peterb1953		</title>
		<link>https://johnriddell.com/2011/12/04/the-comintern-in-1922-the-periphery-pushes-back/#comment-240</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[peterb1953]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 04:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnriddell.com/?p=780#comment-240</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Very interesting post as always and a challenge to various orthodoxies. Your work on the Comintern&#039;s Fourth Congress deserves close study from all socialists. Hopefully it will help the left break from the dogmatic and monolithic traditions that still fetter it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting post as always and a challenge to various orthodoxies. Your work on the Comintern&#8217;s Fourth Congress deserves close study from all socialists. Hopefully it will help the left break from the dogmatic and monolithic traditions that still fetter it.</p>
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